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DinduNuffin

THE KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE!!! 1 WEEK LEFT!!! WIN BIG BIG MONEY!!!

524 posts in this topic
5 hours ago, tyqo said:

@DinduNuffin

Time. Time. Time. Time. Time.

What is a second? What is a minute? What is an hour? 

What is a few days from now? These are labels we attribute to define a period of time. But what is this period? A passing moment? Isn't this something real? Isn't a second at the very least, a speck of sand falling through an hour glass? But then there are different types of hour glasses that allow sand to fall at different rates. So we approximate a second.

Time is an approximation of what in relation to the self?

Time is thought which is experience which is memory. Does this mean Time is memory? What is the implication? That our labels for these periods of time are our memory? 

Labeling time is clearly a construction of the mind. What about the movement of the sun? That is a physical phenomenon that people use to track the time. Is this not also time? But it is a label we give. The movement of the sun.

We have things that must be done in a timely manner.  Our physical body deteriorates. Dust collects. All of this happens how? It happens through time, but it also just happens. The physical body deteriorates not according to time, but by physical processes in the body. Dust collects to due dust particles stacking on top of each other. Things that must be done in a timely manner are often constructions of human thought once again. 

Fundamentally, time is thought supposedly. But I am not sure I understand the magnitude of this statement, nor do I understand how this leads to it being an illusion.

 

@tyqo

that's it!!!  you see!!!  time is memory!!!  time is literally created by the accumulation of memory.  for there to be time, there must be language, concept, and the capacity to store experience, otherwise there is just indefinable actuality!  oh sir, we are getting to it!!

so this is why time can be stretched, skewed, by the interpretation of experiencing.  time spent in the approximative state of pussy parched seems to drag.  but time spent plunging one's mindcock deep in the stinkhole of discernment is skewed to nothingness!!!  it is timeless!!!  and all the sudden it is over!  and mind, again, finds itself idle and thus begins the process of identification, 'yeah i fucked her!  cool!', rationalization, '...well... she wasn't THAT ugly." condemnation, 'she was, indeed quite ugly.'  or justification, 'ok she was indeed quite ugly, but you know what, fuck you self image!  it's none of your business who i fuck!'.  so we see that in the moment experiencing ends, mind looks to identify, rationalize, condemn, or justify the self.  when this does not occur, experiencing continues.  

now the next part brings about the question of what is chronological time, and what is psychological time?  sir, what divides chronological time from psychological time?  

 

 

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4 hours ago, monkey_mine said:

see this as a juicy question. In the past several months, I have thought about how curiosity drives me. I think we have curiosity as an innate quality that drives us as children, but gets covered up or replaced by other drivers as we become mature adults. I think right interest must include this innate curiosity, but it must also include caring or compassion, because we are not just robots. I have an interest in my fellow humans, in their welfare. I think this is also an innate quality of humans.

If I define it in this way though, then I wind up with something to aspire to. An ideal to live up to. Perhaps we should define right interest by negation instead.

Why am I interested in this dialogue? Well, I have an interest in winning the challenge. That outcome would give me pleasure. I would like to win some money. I would like the pleasure and gratification of having people choose me for having the best brain thoughts in this challenge. Is that right interest? 

No. That is self interest. That gratifies and supports my self. Those interests do not get me closer to understanding the self and the metaconcept. So I think "Those are two things that are not right interest. If I can see all the factors that are not right interest, then what will be left through negation will be right interest." Or maybe I don't have to see them all in the particular, but to see the difference, and recognize right interest when it appears. Like when I see a question as juicy. 

This question is juicy and I want to go into it. Not for future rewards, but for the reward right now of inquiring. What is this? How does this work? I am learning something as I inquire. The reward is intrinsic not extrinsic. 

@POWOTE,

ok, certainly KRISHNAMURTI responded yes or no as a means of agreement.  in hindsight, the speaker should have worded that differently.  KRISHNAMURTI never told someone what to do, just explained the interrelation of an action or problem abstractly.  

as for right interest, if you would read first the above post entitled: the matter of right interest.  and then we can move on from there.  

Edited by DinduNuffin
what is reason sir? fundamentally?
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4 hours ago, monkey_mine said:

1) the division between thought and language, or the experiment 
2) the social/environmental disintegration that you experience through the nullification of thought
3) the matter of thought suppression vs self understanding/discernment as a means of bringing about a quiet mind. 
4) the speaker's day. chronologically and then psychologically. 

Mr. the speaker sir, might we continue, (if I  have answered your last question adequately) on your list of questions?  I think we finished with #5, so perhaps you could continue up your list with #4.

so then we are left with four questions from our original list.  you have selected #4.  and your selection elicits the question of interest.  that is, what is it that compels your interest towards discerning the particulars of the speaker?    

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Yes. I read your post on right interest. I think we are moving together in this. Then you ask What is reason, sir, fundamentally. Then we again have 5 questions.

1) the division between thought and language, or the experiment 
2) the social/environmental disintegration that you experience through the nullification of thought
3) the matter of thought suppression vs self understanding/discernment as a means of bringing about a quiet mind. 
4) the speaker's day. chronologically and then psychologically.              

5) What is reason, fundamentally?     

 

 

Then you say this,

18 hours ago, DinduNuffin said:

so then we are left with four questions from our original list.  you have selected #4.  and your selection elicits the question of interest.  that is, what is it that compels your interest towards discerning the particulars of the speaker?    

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, at first glance, Mr. the speaker sir, all of the items on the list look pretty dry. But you have told us or implied that you understand right action, which does not require choice. So apparently you have a way of moving through your day in a different way than I do, or I assume most people do. I go through my day using thought and making choices, should I do this or that and what order should I do things. 

Also you have said that you live in something like ongoing continuous orgasmic bliss. That is also different than how I live. It sounds better to me. I would like to be able to say that I spend my days in orgasmic bliss. 

 

So the mechanics of approximation count as one factor that compels me to ask you to answer question 4. I want what you got. Even though I know to some degree that approximation will not work for this "goal" as it does for other goals, I must not have complete understanding of that fact, or I would not attempt to approximate. I have even wondered has the speaker tried this challenge before this, on another forum. I could do a search for it, as perhaps find you have already described the metaconcept on another forum. Acquisition of information, approximation, these ways of striving toward goals work in practical matters, so I still seek to apply those methods here. I "know" better, but I still do not fully understand. I know enough about how this works, that when I understand a problem fully, that habit dissolves. It is re-cognized as unnecessary. 

 

Next, we have the human interest angle. We all like a good narrative, a good story. I would like to hear the story of your day. None of those other topics hold the potential of any kind of story. I liked reading your story about discovering Krishnamurti by reading Awakening of Intelligence at age 15, and then having the deep understanding you describe 15 years later. I read the same book at age 18, and reading that book opened a great yawning inside me. I abandoned Krishnamurti early on, because I sought answers, a path, a method. So we like stories we can relate to. In ordinary conversation, I would ask you  more about that story, that journey. Also your plan to do many more Krishnamurti Challenges makes that story even more interesting.   If you tell me about your day, I think I can relate to that, more so than all this abstract Q and A.

 

But if, as you say, this understanding you have depends on building a network of understood problems "probably a few hundred", then I have not even gone through the first hundred. And I know they are not juicy questions, but almost all dry abstract ones. I should answer all the questions on the list to pick up the pace. 

 

What is reason? Figuring things out logically, I guess.  Oh, that won't do at all will it?

 

Jesus Christ, man! You're killin me with this stuff!

 

Next question.

 

 

 

 

 

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@POWOTE,

apologies sir.  the question about reason was posed for the software that asked for a reason for the edit.  it is however a valid question and we can very much go into it.  reading the rest of your post now...

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@POWOTE,

naturally, your response triggers the questions, what is dry, and what is choice.  we know to approximate elements of this conversation as dry is to skew reality so we will not go into that.  we know that choice is movement within the limitations of experience, the limitations of the past.  and true discernment is pliable, mechanical and communal. so there is no need to go into choice either.  then, there is the matter of want.  the very movement of want creates insufficiency through contrast.  and this, too, you understand mechanically.  that is, to want to bring about a state of bliss is the very effort that destroys it.  you see that it is self interest that compels you to discern what is question #4, so the seed is planted - it just needs the water of self awareness to bring about the fruit of orgasmic perceptual bliss.    

now the speaker can assure you that this is the first KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE.  the first chance to WIN BIG BIG MONEY.  the dtfh forum seemed a relatively good place to begin as anyone who listens to@duncanlikely has in them the stewing capacity for right interest.  future options might include mental illness forums, grief forums, racist/hate forums, feminism forums, you know, things of this nature, forums of self approximation.  but first the speaker had to build a certain capacity.  and that is being done with you sirs.  and if the metaconcept is conveyed, the KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE then becomes self perpetuating.  you see sir, cacti regenerate and grow from cuttings, and KRISHNAMURTI is available online for free.  we just need to bring about a certain awareness of the value, mechanically, of understanding the self.  

now, if you like stories sir, the speaker is toying with the idea of writing a book.  a philosophical horror comedy.  perhaps over the winter.  the protagonist is a high school student who, tormented by his peers and self approximation, plans and executes a mass murder.  he plans to show up at school and slaughter almost everyone, including himself during an assembly.  he takes special care prior to the event to segregate the one person who was kind to him from the rest.  he chains up all the exits as the assembly gets underway.  having scored a chemical weapon from his military father at take your kid to work day, he remotely sets some off in the assembly and some off in the hallway outside.  he then moves to a vantage point where his guns/ammo are waiting.  a cloud of toxic smoke begins to cover the floor and he begins shooting after a short announcement.  they can't get out and so he just keeps on shooting until they're all bleeding, crying and moaning on the floor.  first responders try to breach the doors to gain entry to the gymnasium but are forced to retreat due to the effects of the gas.  one particularity brave parent, manages to breach the door to the gym.  coughing and bleeding from his orifices he manages to only take a few steps before seeing his slaughtered son, the primary tormenter, dead at his feet.  the man collapses and dies.  the opening of the internal and external doors allows the gas, which is considerably heavier than air, to dissipate the building.  it seems mostly everyone is dead.  sirens are heard but cops and paramedics are nowhere to be seen.  the boy climbs down and begins walking around the gym finishing off some of the wounded until he has only one bullet left.  he holds the gun to his head and begins to squeeze the trigger when he is jumped by that cocksucker bully who, at least in his mind, caused this whole scene through his relentless torment.  he's riddled with bullets he should be dead but he's not!  instead he's growling and trying to bite the face of our poor murderous protagonist! it's a fucking zombie sirs!  a fucking zombie has ruined his chance at a swift suicide!  he shoots him under the chin but now has no more bullets.  our protagonist hears grumblings beginning from those he thought deceased.  some get to their knees and begin to stand up.  they see our protagonist, they make zombie faces, and move towards him.  then, a recognizable scream. it's the one person he took so much care to remove from the building prior to the slaughter.  sensing a tremendously painful death of zombie bites, and projecting that same death onto his screaming friend, he runs towards her voice.  he finds her in the library.  a cocksucker zombie on top of her..  he breaks off the machete like paper cutter and kills that fucking zombie!  but now there is another coming.  he grabs her hand and tries to pull her to safety.  but the girl, a bit of a nerd, yells, "my books!" and reaches back to where there is an open backpack with scattered books.  he quickly grabs one, tosses it into the bag, then grabs her wrist and pulls her away from the zombie librarian.  that book sirs, is freedom from the known, and this is where our story begins.  that cloud of zombificating gas is spreading outward in all directions, and the story becomes a race to escape its expanse, all the while, with the help of his nerdy counterpart, finding out what is actual, with regards to environment, which is the self. for environment and the self and not separate sir.  environment IS the self.  and that is what our murderous protagonist will come to realize.  but he's going to have to fuck up a lot of zombies first.   

now sir, the speaker has a dry sense of humour.  deadpan if you will.  so this may not be your typical philosophical horror comedy.  so just to warn you, the ending is going to be a bit fucked up relative to other stories of self understanding.  now, where were we?  the speaker's day.  chronologically first, correct?  

Edited by DinduNuffin
sir, what is an edit? fundamentally?
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Oh I see, Mr. the speaker sir. You respond to software's question. The software is not smart enough yet to respond.

 

Good story sir. Reminds me of a young Steven King. The deficiencies I notice in character development, you more than make up for with a strong narrative through line, which carries the reader along briskly. Yeah, we all have to kill our share of zombies.

 

A week or so ago I started re-reading "The Awakening of Intelligence" and I felt bogged down by the second dialogue with Jacob Needleman. I love Needleman's work, but clearly he was struggling to find context for his conversation with K. The resulting dialogue, for me, sucked ass, and I skipped ahead to read other parts of the book. 

 

Then yesterday, I decided I need to read the whole book, and started on that dialogue again. This time it was mesmerizing. I noticed that K was addressing each question as if he had never thought about it before. As if his brain had become wiped clean of all his previous dialogues, and he was starting from scratch. Had I ever noticed that before? I don't remember.

 

My tolerance for "dry" dialogue seems to be improving.  I'll kill every fucking zombie in this hell hole to finish that book.

 

 

 

 

 

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POWOTE,

indeed.  now that was of course just the premise and was not in the actual stylings.  the actual story will be read by the speaker from the perspective of our protagonist reflecting back on his life.  it will be released on youtube as a free audiobook to promote the idea of self awareness through the KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE, and given away free with the purchase of a (legal) ornamental cactus.  (ornamental, of course!)  the story will begin with the school assembly murder scene after a short prologue.  then, the story will weave in and out of the past, just as does the mind in the process of self approximation, to cover the backstory, the torment, the abuse, everything.  all the while negating the self through a series of psychological/environmental challenges and flashbacks.  and sir, maybe the girl will even touch his mindcock.  the plan is to build up this fucking horrendous deranged murderer, just as we build up the self but are mostly unaware, then, for him to find reality through the process of negation.  the idea is to show where the real nastiness of humanity comes form culturally/environmentally, while also showing where it comes from mechanically/fundamentally.  the story will contain no rationalization, identification, justification or condemnation.  just murder, zombies, and discernment.  

the speaker encourages you to read the entirety of the awakening of intelligence.  certain parts will seem repetitive, and certain parts will not fully make sense.  read them all.  and go slowly sir.  take time to reflect between segments as you have to watch it in yourself to actually understand.  he is going to redefine a lot of terms and he's going to use those terms in the descriptions of other terms before you understand what they all mean. you will be near the end of the book before the metaconcept, which is the integral understanding of all these terms, comes to light.  the speaker was on the last page. second time through.  trippiest sensation of my life, and the speaker has done a lot of fucking drugs sir.  most people don't have the patience or the capacity to look at themselves earnestly.  most people are so wrapped up in the self that the concept of the self mechanically seems absurd.  so this will not be a simple journey.  but in you there is right interest.  

now, since we are waiting for @Stigand @duncanto upgrade the software so that it can answer questions, we are back down to 4 questions.

1) the division between thought and language, or the experiment 
2) the social/environmental disintegration that you experience through the nullification of thought
3) the matter of thought suppression vs self understanding/discernment as a means of bringing about a quiet mind. 
4) the speaker's day. chronologically and then psychologically.              

we agreed to begin with #4, the speaker's day chronologically and then psychologically.  let's go into it!  we will begin tomorrow morning upon waking.  the speaker will explain his entire day first chronologically and then we will find out what took place psychologically.  as we know, these are two very different planes of movement.  

 

 

  

 

    

 

        

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Edited by monkey_mine
not enough empty quote boxes
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Excellent sir. I look forward to reading your account of your day.

5 hours ago, DinduNuffin said:

 just murder, zombies, and discernment.  

 

 

 

  

 

    

 

        

Indeed sir. How can you go wrong?

And I will take your advice as I continue to read  the dialogues of the celebrated Mr. K.

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@POWOTE,

what could go wrong?  well what is wrong?  are we talking wrong subjectively or wrong integrally?  certainly if the speaker were all subjectively wrapped up in personal self interest an effort such as this could go wrong in a number of ways.  that is, if the speaker wanted money, attention, praise, and didn't receive those things then there would be insufficiency and then condemnation, justification, or rationalization.   there is also the matter of legality.  ornamental cacti are of course quite legal!  but mescaline not so much.  so likely advocating for the use of mescaline would be frowned upon by those with pants of poopy.  so the speaker cannot advocate the use of mescaline directly. however, if a deranged murdered takes mescaline in a book, fictionally, there is no advocation, just the telling of a story.  and if said murderer unlocks the process of self awareness through a KRISHNAMURTI ZOMBIE CHALLENGE, and the reader commemorates the story with an ornamental plant, then the reader might also pair the experiences, as did the speaker, to embark on their own KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE.  the speaker has done nothing illegal, and the sir will unlock self awareness and bring the collective closer to communion.  then there is the matter of commemoration and right interest and we have discussed what is right interest, and we see that this whole thing is an effort to bring about communion, which is discernment, which is finding actuality through relationship.  and the commemoration piece is a necessary guise.    

now, it is 0930 and the speaker is having a coffee and typing to you sir.  the day is unfolding chronologically and psychologically.  the speaker will sequence events chronologically as the day goes on.  and then we will find out what occurred psychologically.  

0900:  began to wake up.  cats sleep on either side of the speaker.  they make no attempt to move as the speaker slides out from between them.  

0910:  the speaker makes coffee.

0915:  the speaker poops.  

0930:  the speaker drinks coffee and writes about chronological time, and the KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE.  

1000:  checks emails.  eats breakfast.

1100:  works out in the sun.  then drinks hemp protein.  

1130:  walks down by the river to a place where there is a naturally formed seat.  sits there and finishes the collected works #5.

1300-1500:  looks at trees, rocks, birds and such.  

1500:  pollinates various species of lophophora with a q-tip  

1600:  finds a fungal infection in some seedlings and two mature plants that was thought to be clear.  

1700:  begins cooking dinner.  curried chicken, coconut curried sweet potatoes, and vegetable mix with tomatoes, jalapeno and red peppers, celery.  

1800:  @DindetteNuffin arrives home from work.  scheduled meeting person was supposed to arrive at this time as well. 

1900:  scheduled meeting person still not arrived.  still waiting inside.  

1910:  called scheduled meeting person and asked where he was.  said it was one of those days and was on his way over.  suggested that the speaker has shit do do brah and we are going to have to sort this out over the phone.  he said he was driving and would call the speaker when he got home.  

1930:  phone rings.  it's scheduled appointment person.  discussed business.  will meet in the morning.  

2000:  settling in to bed with DindetteNuffin and a book.  plan for an early day tomorrow to address potential spread of fungal infection/business.   

2100-2300:  off to sleep.  

and there you have it sir.  a day in the life of the speaker.  

 

  

 

 

Edited by DinduNuffin
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On 8/16/2016 at 0:22 PM, DinduNuffin said:

@tyqo

now the next part brings about the question of what is chronological time, and what is psychological time?  sir, what divides chronological time from psychological time?  

 

 

Chronological time is time related to a physical process. Like the time it takes a ball to hit the floor.  Psychological time, I don't know how to phrase it,  but I think it refers to the time needed when someone desires to be something that they arernt. The time for "what is" to become "what should be". 

 

Does what is ever become what should be through effort? Like I want to graduate of college. I am not currently a graduate of college.  Isn't doing the work necessary to graduate creating conflict? I am just using this as an example.  Or is what should be just an approximation that really doesn't matter? 

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@tyqo

indeed.  now sir, before we discuss your last question, could we discuss the interval between what is, and what should be?  sir, what is it that divides the what is from the what should be? 

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Dang, sir. If that represents a typical day for you, then it appears you live a sweet life, subjectively speaking. Pretty low stress. 

Thank you for doing that account. a few questions come up for me. What do you get out of  reading Krishnamurti?  It seems like you got the message. He must then only  repeat what you already understand...

 

Also when you sleep, do you have dreamless sleep? K talked about dreamless sleep and it made sense to me as the optimal state if you can have a complete experience of every event your day, and thus left no residue or "rememnants" to process thru dreaming at night. I don't know anyone else who talked about dreamless sleep like K. did. The common assumption  still holds that REM sleep is a biological necessity for mental health. 

 

Are these ornamental plants legal to buy send/receive in the U.S.? 

 

I think the zombie formula needs some novelty. I love zombie stories/movies in general, but I quit watching Walling Dead after one or two seasons. I just don't care that much anymore. I'd like to see a movie with intelligent talking zombies. Not geniuses, but just as smart as regular humans. Complicated zombies. They still gotta kill and eat live humans. But maybe they talk about it like alcoholics or junkies, like- 

"Man I wish I could quit doing this but live humans just taste too damn good."

"Yeah, me too, but shit, dude,  what else is there to do, anyway? We're fucking zombies."

 

Maybe the zombies could still have sex., That would add novelty. Horny zombies having sex with each other and with live humans if they can catch them. Imagine that. 

 

OK one more. Intelligent, horny zombies, and they know Kung-fu... Right? I mean I've never watched a movie and said afterwards, "well that was OK, but it had too much sex and Kung-fu."  

Edited by monkey_mine
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14 hours ago, DinduNuffin said:

@tyqo

indeed.  now sir, before we discuss your last question, could we discuss the interval between what is, and what should be?  sir, what is it that divides the what is from the what should be? 

What should be is a mental projection based on what is not being suited to our liking. 

Edited by tyqo
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@mackowski,

ah!  indeed!  now tell me sir, have you every done a KRISHNAMURTI CHALLENGE?   

 

sir, what is it that divides a challenge from a response?  

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Dindu, I'm kinda bringing up a point you made AGES ago in terms of internet time, but how can discernment only happen in relationship and not in isolation if self is just an illusion and reality is shape-shifting?

relationship must surely be an illusion if self is an illusion. When you feel like you know somebody, or feel like you're conversing with somebody, you're surely only perceiving and experiencing a minute bit of what is actually taking place. 

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@POWOTE,

now what is a typical day?  is a day not just a day?  perhaps if you were to pose the question again on another day you would be less inclined to approximate it as sweet, but rather boring or uncomfortable.  the day we discussed was rather uneventful, comparatively.

now when it comes understanding there are levels aren't there sir?  wait, maybe levels is not the right word.  perhaps the word is continuum.  that is, understanding is a continuum and so is life.  now life, which is a series of challenges and responses, which are in fact one integrated movement and never separate, are segregated by the processes of the mind.  that is, experiences are broken up and labelled and stored.  when the speaker reads about the process of the self, or when he considers the whole process, he meets this experience, of reading, through the veil of the past, through the veil of stored labels.  so then every time the process of the self is read about, considered, it has between it and the self new labels.  does that make sense sir?  

and there is another reason the speaker continues to read KRISHNAMURTI.  although it seems that the primary ideas seem to remain the same, KRISHNAMURTI is always exposing new corners of the metaconcept.  we discussed that the metaconcept is the cumulative understanding of the mechanical relationship between a great many subconcepts.  subconcepts that reveal the self through negation.  7 books in and KRISHNAMURTI is still busting out new ones each time the speaker reads.  so while the speaker's understanding of what KRISHNAMURTI presented linguistically might be considered relatively strong, there are deeper and deeper sublayers of the speaker that are constantly being renewed and uncovered.   

certain ones are legal in the USA...  astrophytum yes, lophophora no.  trichocereus species you'll have to check.  most likely they are available nearby.  the plants grow wild in certain areas of the country.  so it is beyond idiotic to restrict them.  

certainly there is much to be done with intelligent zombies.  but the speaker has not seen it done in any really intelligent way thus far.  there have been some attempts.  the idea of zombies that still have sex is intriguing..  sir, what about rape zombies?  that is, eating is a fundamental urge, somewhat like sex.  so if the zombie mind is a mind stripped of its more complex qualities then rape zombies is not too far fetched.  hmmm..  rape zombies.  

   

 

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@mike,

to live with regret it to live with misunderstanding.  

sir this is an important question and needs our careful attention.  sir, is there the self in isolation?   that is, does the self even exist in isolation?  

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2 minutes ago, DinduNuffin said:

@mike,

to live with regret it to live with misunderstanding.  

sir this is an important question and needs our careful attention.  sir, is there the self in isolation?   that is, does the self even exist in isolation?  

the self DOESNT EXIST. therefore your question is silly in a way.

but, to answer your question.. is there self in isolation? well, im sure there can be an illusory concept within another illusory concept.

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Is there any way to get in on this big big money challenge without reading 75 pages worth of babble? Where does one start?

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