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VIP of Horror

How do you feel about engaging in the materials produced by those who prove to be somehow fucked up? The Woody Allens, Varg Vikerneses, Ayn Rands, Michael Jacksons, Ghandis, etc of the world?

Where do you draw the line and why?

Personally, I don't care either way. All I care about the the material itself. The artist/intellectual/pundit's output is what matters, and the backstory only adds some color. I can't change what they did, or influence it in any way. I can be aware, but that's it.


Everyone has something fucked up about them. Is it wrong to "consume products" by those who most deem morally corrupt? How do we pass judgement without the full scope of information? Should we disregard their work based on their flaws? Is it OK if you wait until they are dead? Is it OK to pass judgement on those who still enjoy their work, does that somehow make you morally superior?

It's weird, cos I DO pass judgement on those who ride Kissinger or Obama's dick. Those people are murderers, responsible for thousands of deaths. Yet it is more likely to write a "revealing" Woody Allen piece than it is to acknowledge the illegal wars and genocides of Kissinger. Perhaps that's where my issue lies. The hypocracy.

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I don't think it really matters for the most part. Every single person is flawed in some way and in this moment in time it is so easy to make someone seem like a terrible person. i don't think we should shut anybody out. You can learn something from everyone. Some of the best things that i've learned i learned from terrible people (sometimes you just need to see how not to do something). And one of the most important things that i've learned is that if you just talk to these "terrible" people, you'll find out that they don't want to be like that. They are just trying their hardest but it's so easy to get lost. It's so easy to say i'd never be like that. But really put yourself in that persons shoes. Weather it's your boss, the president, anyone, and really think if you would do things differently.

All that being said I'm the first mother fucker to piss and moan about how someone is fucking up. But i think the biggest mistake we make collectively, is we have this idea of the perfect person who will come along and be that hero that we have been waiting for. They aren't racist, sexist, homophobic, they don't cheat on their partner, they have a good sense of humor and they have all the right political ideas and they are still as clean as a whistle. That person isn't coming, we need to stop acting like a teenage girl who is writing a long list of all the attributes that her future husband needs to have. 

We just have to learn to live with the flaws because they will always be there. And if we want acceptance from others, we better hope people accept our flaws too. Ultimately these negative perceptions that we have are just distractions from seeing whats good in other people which would really help us all grow more. I hope I didn't ramble on too much. Thanks for the post.

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I think I am kinda like what you describe. If I can learn something, that's good enough. Be it taking the good and scrapping the bad, or trying to learn from the mistakes of others. If I were to disregard the output of anyone who has made a grievous mistake, I'd be a lot poorer than I am now.

14 hours ago, kyledude said:

they have a good sense of humor and they have all the right political ideas

That's an oxymoron ^^

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I Almost entirely appreciate the art despite the artist. If the art itself is offensive or glorifying something despicable that's different.

most true artists/creatives are familiar with statements such as "it was like my [song/painting/poem/work] came *through* me and not from me."

i feel like humans are vessels for the greater creative impulse, and the vessels are pieces of shit sometimes. Because they're primates.

 

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For me there is a big difference between "everybody has issues" and "murdered people" or "molested kids".

The former I don't care about, the latter two I do. I will stop being a fan of someone or enjoying their work of they're a monster. I can not make that seperation.

Call me crazy.

I do often struggle with this idea of destroying our heroes. Like, is George Washington an irredeemable monster for having slaves, or is he merely a wealthy man of his times who should be judged only against his peers? MLK cheated on his wife a lot. Should we bash him or praise him for all of his other works?

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Focus on Mel Gibson:

When he intentionally constructs something to share with the world it's a healthy, vibrant, beautiful thing. When he has a breakdown and his ugliness overpowers his positivity we all shun him and I think it's weird.

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The owner of Comet Ping Pong doesn't care either. Apparently pedo bands who post videos with images of abused children and pedophilia references are welcome anytime at his restaurant.

:tinfoil:

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ok i'm gonna dive into the deep end. 

what if out put really doesn't matter? i was gonna say Walt Disney was an alleged anti-semite (I really don't know, but lets just say he was) look at the positive output he's had on society. then again who gives a fuck about anything thats come out of disney? has it really helped the world in a true fashion? i think about it like this, there is pretty much nothing a person can do to make a legitimate contribution to humanity. UNLESS it involves transcending humanity in some way. Jesus, Buddha, people like that. if someone can single handedly figure out how to get humans onto other planets successfully i think they would be in the previously mentioned company. 

i think its good to look outward at whats going on because no one person has THE answer, but i think we should spend most of our time looking inward with the occasional glance up to make sure we are headed in as straight of a line as we can travel. 

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I just think that what someone creates and who they are are two seperate things. They add color to each other for the observer/consumer, for sure, but they're not the same thing.

Maybe it boils down to: Is "consuming" their "products" contributing to their fucked up behavior in any way, and can you defend that?

I don't know. But yet I can't bring myself to not listen to Burzum, or not watch Woody Allen's movies. Hell, I'm not entirely convinced that Woody Allen is such a bad guy after all. I simply don't know enough so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. And Varg Vikernes seems like a misguided dude who got caught up in some crazy subculture in the early to mid 90s. I also understand and partly agree with his anti-christian rethoric, in light of its history in our country. I don't agree with the method, but I get the message. If he is a bonafied nazi today, his ideology seems far removed from Hitler's ideology. Vikernes is anti-globalism and anti-Zionist, I don't think he is anti-human or anti-jew.

I'm not really drawing any conclusions here, I'm just thinking "out loud" about a question that seems relevant in our day and age. I'm no sjw, and not a big fan of their movement either, but in light of current events, I guess you're supposed to ask these questions.

 

On 28.12.2016 at 3:12 PM, kyledude said:

has it really helped the world in a true fashion? i think about it like this, there is pretty much nothing a person can do to make a legitimate contribution to humanity. UNLESS it involves transcending humanity in some way. Jesus, Buddha, people like that.

But does it have to be a contribution to humanity? Can't it simply be that you yourself get something out of his movies that enriches your life?
I'm not a huge Disney fan, but Fantasia at least lets me hold on to my inner child. It does not make me any more anti-semetic. I am not against jews or their religion, I am against religious opium and blind-sighted globalism, which unfortunately happens to intersect with a number of jews. I don't think this has anything to do with their "race", it's simply a historical and cultural consequence of being part of a persecuted people who got into the banking game when no one else were allowed, and thus getting into some fucked up globalist elite with dubious goals in mind.

I think I am more anti-ideology or anti-any-ism than anything else.

I don't know, man. I think it's good to simply be aware and make your decisions accordingly on a situation to situation basis. I will listen to Burzum, but I will not eat at McDonald's (Unless I'm drunk and starving).

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I wouldn't sweat it too much unless you are willing to renunciate the entire world.

 

I say this because you consume material all the time that has been created cruelly. If you have clothes they are probably created by slave children, if you eat meat you have to know that the company probably has a hell-dimension torture chamber for animals, if you buy oil you take part in polluting the oceans and rivers. And so on.

And these companies do this shit on a daily basis. Seems like if I am consuming material from just one person who happened to do or say a few fucked up things in his life, the impact is a lot less.

I don't always like what they say or do, yet I still get pleasure from consuming the material and since I don't think I am Jesus or Shakyamuni, I will continue to do so because it feels good. (Wow that is awful! Is it time to dropout and become a sadhu???)

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The good ol' "everything is inherently evil and ego-driven anyway, so who gives a fuck?"-argument is always handy.

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